The estranged wife of union heavyweight John Setka was secretly recorded telling a private investigator she needed to “kill my children’s father to survive”.
Emma Louise Walters, 47, returned before the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on Tuesday to contest a charge that she threatened to kill Mr Setka.
A second charge relating to her attempting to acquire a handgun was thrown out by Magistrate Leon Fluxman who found there was “no case to answer” because police had failed to provide any evidence of the specific type of firearm.
Wearing a bold flower-print suit, she sat calmly on the court’s front bench chatting with a supporter.
She has pleaded not guilty, with her lawyer, Emily Clark, saying there’s no dispute Ms Walters made the threat, but arguing she did not intend for the investigator to fear the threat would be carried out — a central element of the charge.
Giving evidence, private investigator Adrian Peeters told the court he was contacted on behalf of Ms Walters in January this year for a possible “debugging” job at her West Footscray home.
Two months later, on March 21, he said he visited her home where the conversation “shifted” after about 10 minutes.
“She stated she needed a piece and needed to kill the father of her children,” he said.
“In 23 years I haven’t experienced that; I was shocked … For my own safety I started recording the conversation.”
Outlining the case against Ms Walters, prosecutor Philip Teo said it was alleged Ms Walters told Mr Peeters she needed to kill her estranged husband “to survive”.
“Mr Peeters got out and contacted the accused’s husband’s lawyers who referred him to police,” he said.
When questioned why he began recording, Mr Peeters told the court he had never met Ms Walters before and was uncomfortable with where the conversation led.
“(She was) talking about a possible murder,” he said.
“I needed to have my own backup of what was said.”
Mr Teo told the court she did not refer to her husband by name, mostly saying “the father of my children” but the case alleges she was talking about Mr Setka – the secretary of the Victorian and Tasmanian division of the CFMEU.
A 22-minute video secretly recorded by Mr Peeters was played to the court in which Ms Walters repeatedly asked him to help her aquire a gun and hide it in the house.
“I need to kill my children’s father and I’ve got no other solution to the situation I’m in,” she said.
“Sorry, I’m a lawyer by trade, from a legal perspective what will be asked about me is a question of intent.
“I have to put him in a situation where i’ve accessed and used it for the purposes of self-defence.”
Mr Walters told Mr Peeters she was going to have to “lure” Mr Setka to the property, and “this conversation never happened”.
“I’m willing to have to go through the court process of self defence — I have that capacity,” she said.
Mr Peeters told the court as soon as he left contacted “people in the union I know” and relayed the conversation to John Setka directly before going to police.
Under cross examination from Ms Clark, he said he was concerned about Mr Setka’s safety and felt he had a duty of care.
“She had detailed allegations of family violence... your first move was to contact the alleged perpetrator,” Ms Clark said.
“I suggest to you if you had real concerns you would have contacted the police first.”
Ms Walters was arrested eight days laters and initially charged with incitement to commit conspiracy to murder, however this was later dropped at a hearing in August.
During a one hour interview with Detective Acting Sergeant Daniel Ramirez, which was played to the court, she initially denied asking Mr Peeters for a firearm, saying it was “ridiculousness and it’s lies”.
But when the 22-minute recording was played, she changed her story, saying it was just “florid” language.
“I’m not worried about that conversation... that's a woman who is in distress and the system has failed her and her children time and time again,” she said.
“It was a difficult conversation but have I got any intent to kill John Setka no, no, but do I have a responsibility to protect myself and my children, yes.”
She told Detective Ramirez their relationship was “highly confrontational” and Mr Setka had allegedly perpetrated family violence towards her.
“He’s 125 plus kilos and 6 foot 4 with power and resources behind him... what he wants to do is control me,” she said.
“I was in a distressed state.
“I have no problem with that being played out in a court because its the reality; police have failed me again and again.”
In her closing address, Ms Clark said Ms Walters had used her “florid” language to express her level of concern to Mr Peeters and the recording provided he was “going along with it”.
“She did not intend Adrian Peeters to fear she would carry out the threat,” she said.
“She wasn’t making these utterances to him to make him scared. She was asking this man for help... and he was placating her.
“This is a desperate woman trying to get assistance and that is very different.”
Mr Teo countered, saying the evidence was Mr Peeters was “shocked” by what she was saying and just wanted to get out of there.
“He indicated he commenced recording because she’s essentially blurted out; ‘I need a piece, I'm going to kill my children’s father’,” he said.
“The moment she made that comment she must have been reckless about the fear it would cause.”
Ms Walters has accused Setka of a campaign of harassment and violence since they split — Mr Setka has repeatedly denied these allegations.
Magistrate Fluxman told the court he would need time to consider the “complex” arguments and reserved his judgement.
Ms Walters will return to court next month.
ncG1vNJzZmivp6x7r7HWrGWcp51jrrZ7zZqroqeelrlwwsicq6iqmZZ8r7HWrGaeq6Snrq%2BzxJ1ksKGWmnqwsoyupaKnnmKvsL%2FSZqGooJ5iwKbAyppkmqScmrSmsMuyZJ2ho5jCtL%2FEnWSkoZyhtq%2BzjKGgpmWRo7Fur8uaoKahnpx6tLHLn5uenpWjsKZ7zZ6urGWjqbyzxY5ymGlvlJiwcYSUaWqda5Fnf6KEkXGbbptpmIF2f5SebQ%3D%3D